Kübra and Mx. Sür take us on a journey through Istanbul’s queer underground, where activism and creativity unite. From the founding of XSM Recordings to the creation of the transformative anthem ALAN2020, they highlight the resilience of Turkey’s LGBTQIANP+ community. Their stories remind us that creativity fuels resistance and community remains our greatest source of strength
Text and interview by Efe Çilek
Photography by Dirty Projector
Turkey's Pride Month is more about resistance than celebration
Similar to all around the world, Istanbul's queer underground scenes serve as a unique and significant cultural phenomenon. It stands as a sanctuary of resistance against a restrictive socio-political environment. Since its inception, Istanbul Pride has been a powerful symbol of visibility and defiance for Turkey’s LGBTQIANP+ community. At its peak in 2014, over 100,000 people marched down Istiklal Avenue during the largest Pride celebration ever seen in a Muslim-majority country. Although homosexuality is not illegal in Turkey, 2015 marked a turning point: participants were met by police armed with water cannons and rubber bullets, leading to a complete ban on Pride events that continues to have an impact today. Over the years, the government has intensified restrictions, using excuses like public health during the COVID-19 pandemic to further suppress creative and queer spaces. These policies disproportionately impact subcultural communities, shrinking spaces for connection and creativity. It begs the question: Where do we go from here? How do we continue to create, connect, and inspire?
From Istanbul’s Underground to the World
The answers came from XSM Recordings (Ex-Step Mother), a revolutionary “slutty motherhood project” co-founded by Sasha Caglar (aka Mx.Sür), Kübra Uzun (aka Q-BRA), and Birgay during Pride Week in June 2020. XSM was born as a record label and evolved into a platform where music, activism, and creativity come together. XSM takes proactive steps to reclaim spaces, strengthen voices, and create opportunities for artists to grow and be heard. Its impact on the LGBTQIANP+ community in Turkey is profound, offering hope for the future. Their anthem, ALAN2020, transcended its role as a song to become a powerful call to action—a celebration of inclusion and a declaration of queer resistance. Its message, “We are one + one for all,” embodies the spirit of solidarity and underscores the necessity of spaces where queer voices can thrive.
ALAN2020: Anthem of Istanbul’s Queer Resistance
As Istanbul’s underground queer scene navigates the pressures of a restrictive socio-political environment and grows, its story becomes a universal one—of struggle, survival, and the unyielding human spirit. These thoughtfully crafted spaces provide a haven for freedom, self-expression, and the joy of dancing until the sun rises. Their work with XSM Recordings, exemplified by the song ALAN2020, demonstrates the transformative power of creativity and activism. Their first vinyl release preserves the memories, emotions, and revolutionary spirit of a community that refuses to be silenced.
The journey of queer resistance in Turkey is far from over, but it is one that continues to inspire. It reminds us that the fight for space, recognition, and freedom is cyclical. With every challenge faced, a new generation emerges—stronger, more determined, and ready to carry the legacy forward. The stories of Kübra and Sasha Caglar reaffirm that creativity fuels resistance, and community remains the foundation of strength and hope.
Efe: First of all, While exploring your journeys, I was amazed by how multifaceted your careers have been. But today, in this moment, how do Kübra and Sasha Çaglar define themselves—not just as artists but as individuals? How are you feeling about where you are today?
Kübra: These days, I feel that I need to be grounded, up to date, awake and deeply in tune with the present moment—even though I rarely think about and plan my future, nowadays, I am experiencing something new as an individual living in another city/country. It is not easy to get used to, to dive in, but day by day, I understand it more…but The urge gets the rest, and I try to follow the needs. It’s feeding me, it must, and also empowering, it should! I kinda feel it, but I cannot shape it yet. I know I’m having another transformation, but I need to be more careful this time. Every experience and change feels like it’s shaping me into something new. Right now, I feel like I’m exactly where I need to be, and that feeling comes with different moods and emotions, both bitter and sweet.
Çaglar: I feel like I’m in a very transformative and evolving place. Compared to where I was last year, I’ve grown so much, and I view life from a much healthier and better perspective. I’ve been working on certain behavioural patterns, trying to improve myself as much as possible, and it’s been incredibly rewarding. At the same time, I allow myself to let go entirely sometimes—and that feels just as good! I’m excited about what my 40s have in store for me. It feels like I’m on the verge of something new and powerful, and that energy feeds my creativity in unexpected ways.
Photography by Antre
E: Your journeys have inspired so many people. How did you first get involved in the underground scene? What does it look like to start this journey in Turkey?
K: It was 2002-3 when I had my first club night out in Istanbul. There are more than 2-3 places per night where you can go and listen to music and gather with people: good old days, good old Turkey, good old Taksim! Aaanyway, between 2012-14 I managed Kiki Ortaköy. Of course, I knew people, the pioneers of the scene before, some as close friends as Caglar, but I can say I started to get involved in the scene as one of its initiators beginning in 2018. What a journey it has been since! Not just as someone participating in it but as someone helping to shape it. Being part of such a unique, transformative culture in Turkey has been a defining part of my story.
Ç: My discovery of underground culture dates back to my teenage years, but I truly started living it when I was in Marseille, France, at the age of 20. That’s where I got my first taste of the scene. When I returned to Istanbul, I rediscovered and immersed myself in the underground culture here. The early 2000s in Istanbul were something special, truly unique. But then, as you know, everything changed. Honestly, I’m not sure I even have the energy to recount it all again—it’s a bittersweet memory. Then, I started DJing in 2007. Then we curated Wake Up Call, Suma Beach and Mama in Istanbul. Now, XSM time!
E: Restrictions and crackdowns have been a common theme for underground movements worldwide. How have the bans on Istanbul Pride and other measures shaped the queer underground scene in Turkey? What makes it unique compared to global queer movements?
K: I believe true pride is present here in Turkey! If Pride means standing up and saying, 'We are here, we exist, and we will resist,' then that’s exactly what we have been doing since 2015. Of course, the bans and oppressive measures come with sadness, anger and anxiety, but as clever individuals, we always find ways to express ourselves and our identities in our own unique ways as lubunya(s) living in TR. (Lubunya is a term in Turkish queer slang that represents queer identity, often used with pride and solidarity within the community.) We continue, we struggle, and we proudly say, 'Hello, we are here—hopppp now here, ce eeee noooow there! What makes Turkey’s queer underground scene so unique is the new generation—such a powerful force. They are aware of everything, standing still, resisting, showing up in this phenomenon with incredible resilience, and expressing themselves through art, performance, and activism. It’s not easy, and it won’t be easy, but their determination gives us hope that things will get better. The sense of community here, like everywhere in the world, is the true spirit that keeps us going.
Ç: I honestly can’t even count how many times we’ve answered this question. What’s most important is that these struggles strengthen both our creativity and our sense of connection. Every movement has its own unique qualities, but what makes Istanbul’s queer underground scene stand out is the city itself—it refuses to conform to any singular form or structure. Its uniqueness stems from this cultural defiance and relentless determination.
E: Was there a specific moment or experience when you realized that art and activism would become central to your lives? What inspired you to bring these two aspects together so deeply?
K: It wasn’t a realization—it was always a part of my spirit of involvement in art, even as a child. Art and activism naturally came together for me, starting to breathe as one truly. In 2015, with the transformation and becoming ‘Kübra’, that individual journey deepened. What inspired me was simply being myself. My identity inherently connects art and activism—they are inseparable to me, nothing more and nothing less.
Ç: Honestly, being a lubunya in Turkey inherently brings art and activism together. So, I can’t pinpoint a specific moment of realization—it’s part of existing in this world. But deciding to take action and start creating collectively was a truly special moment. It marked a turning point where the personal and the collective merged in a deeper way.
Photography by Jorgen
E: Turkey’s queer community has had to fight for every inch of space, both literally and metaphorically. How has this struggle influenced your artistic vision and the messages you want your work to convey? How has your work evolved?
K: Resistance is what drives us forward. The more we resist, the more we reflect on how we can continue to exist and thrive despite the challenges. Resistance fuels creativity—it’s the very foundation of everything I do. I constantly think about myself, the community, and the people around me who have chosen to be my family and loved ones. My guiding question has always been: how can I, and how can we, make this country or habitat a place worth living in for the beloved ones around? This ongoing struggle has profoundly shaped my artistic vision. I don’t create solely for myself—I create collaboratively with and for the community. The community is always present, and it empowers me. What I gain from the community, I channel back into my work as a source of strength and inspiration. Everything I do evolves alongside the community, and everything I create is ultimately for the community.
Ç: As an artist, at some point, you inevitably feel the need to express what you’ve experienced. ALAN2020 became the ‘thing’ that brought us together. Over time, we’ve grown accustomed to working with a collective consciousness, positively impacting our creations. However, the message we want to convey remains the same: "I’m free, my love!"
E: Since coming out in 2018, I’ve personally experienced how powerful and transformative the spaces you’ve created can be. They allowed me to feel the full power of queer identity, to dance freely, and to find a sense of belonging that often feels absent in the larger society. What inspires you to create these spaces, and how do you see them shaping the lives of those who, like me, find strength and community within them?
K: Ahhh, lovely! Inspiration itself comes from the power of community. The more we interact, the more we create; the more we come together to celebrate, the more we see each other, and the more inspiration flows. It’s a cycle that continues to grow and expand. This inspiration drives us to think about what more we can do. That’s why we started projects like XSM—it comes from the ground up and is for everyone. It’s about creating spaces that belong to all of us, spaces where we can thrive, connect, and keep building on this collective energy.
Ç: How beautiful it is to hear that! Honestly, we all provide this feeling of freedom to one another. Without one of us, the other wouldn’t exist. As the XSM mamas, we simply share and pass on our experiences. It’s something we always do together as a collective.
Photography by Jorgen
E: Your first vinyl, ALAN2020, is a big step, and it’s clear how deeply personal this journey has been for both of you— What does this moment mean to you, not just as a creative achievement, but as a reflection of everything you have built together? What is the story behind it?
K: ALAN2020, as an individual track/song, was the first release of XSM. The vinyl, ALAN2020, marks the label’s 25th release and features three of our collaborative works with Caglar: ALAN2020, DJ Me(h)mure, and Benim Alfabem. After writing and producing these works/songs/tracks, we reached a point where we realized they needed to exist in a physical form—a hard copy, a limited edition, a memory, a monument. We asked ourselves, 'Why not?' Now, here it is. We are so happy. This vinyl feels monumental to us. The process itself was so unique. I remember waking up one morning and writing the lyrics in just 15 minutes—it just flowed. Then, we worked hard together to bring it all to life. Seeing these creations printed and preserved on vinyl is a surreal and fulfilling moment. It’s not just a project; it’s a tangible reflection of everything we’ve built together.
Ç: Yes, this vinyl encapsulates the journey we started in June 2020. It’s like wrapping up everything we’ve done since then. The process of creating and producing this vinyl has been the most meaningful part. Our other XSM mamas, Birgay and 4-i, contributed so much to making this happen. Additionally, the entire cover shoot team and Salih Topuz, who provided tireless technical and musical support, made the process incredibly special. Being able to touch the final product is fantastic, but for me, it’s always about the journey rather than the result. This process, every moment of it, is what stays with me.
E: Your collaboration on ALAN2020 was your first time creating music together. What did you learn from each other through this experience?
K: We’ve known each other for almost three decades, but ALAN2020 was the first time we created/shaped something together. Çaglar and I have always shared a bond rooted in love, but working on ALAN2020 was such a unique experience. It was fun, dynamic, and filled with hard work. Honestly, at the moment, you don’t fully grasp the depth or meaning of the interaction and fusion between each other—it’s only after years pass that you realize the importance of what you’ve created. It’s not just about making music; it’s about the energy we share. Working with Çağlar is always fun, no matter what we’re creating. That balance of fun, connection, and trust keeps us returning to create together. And now, holding the vinyl in our hands feels like the culmination of that journey.
Ç: Kübra and I have known each other for a very long time, but collaborating on ALAN2020 added a new layer to our friendship. Through this process, I learned the importance of personal expression and how to channel it into something collective, something communal. Kübra has this incredible vocal genius, and working with her is endlessly inspiring. Sometimes, without even saying a word, we’d have the exact same thought or make the same comment at the same time. Those moments of unspoken connection are priceless, and they made the process of creating together even more special.
E: The title ALAN translates to "territory," raising powerful questions about space and belonging. What inspired you to explore the borders of queer existence through this concept, and how do you see the song challenging those boundaries?
K: There is no border or line that I can see—there never was. The idea of borders has always been something we’ve been exploring, and ALAN2020 doesn’t challenge boundaries; it transcends them. The song provides inspiration to anyone who listens—it resonates with everyone. The song explains everything through its sound and lyrics, through its melodic intelligence and rhythm. There’s even a musical element known as the ‘devil’s chord’ in the composition, which many composers use to create a sense of tension and release. It’s one of those melodies that stays with you, repeating in your mind, and it becomes a reflection of the idea that these so-called borders do not bind us. ALAN2020 inspires and makes you feel good—it’s all about that energy.
Ç: As we said in the lyrics: “The streets are ours, darling! The world is ours! I’m free, my love!” I think that sums it up perfectly.
E: The list of names shows the depth and diversity of contributors to this project. How did each person bring their unique touch to ALAN2020? How important was making this a collective project rather than a solo endeavour?
K: We produce what you hear in ALAN2020, the vinyl, together with Caglar. But the vinyl, as an output, had shaped itself with the hand of the four core members of XSM—Çağlar, Birgay, Dirty, and me. Dirty coordinated the photo shooting and shot the photos for the front, back and inside covers, featuring some amazing accessories and corsets from Arcadia Trinkets and Ipek Peri. Our beloved Tusidi did the makeup for the shoot, and Cüneyt Ceylan gave the final retouch of the selected photos. Birgay coordinated the relations between the printing companies for the cover and the vinyl and the sponsor. Everyone was involved; we were all in this together. It’s about raising our voices collectively—ALAN2020.
Ç: ALAN2020 was made for all of us, so its collective nature was never up for debate. During the pandemic, our spaces were restricted more than ever, and coming together like this was truly special.
E: XSM Recordings began its journey with the release of "ALAN2020". The label has since been described as a "slutty and revolutionary motherhood project." What inspired you to build XSM with this song, and how does the label reflect your values and vision for creating inclusive and impactful spaces?
Ç: Being an 'ex-stepmother' is something I’ve personally experienced—literally, I’ve been one! XSM draws from these places of belonging, identity, and even identitylessness, hugging the idea that anyone can be anything anytime. Everything we release has something to say—you only need to look at our catalog to see that. Initially, XSM started as a label, but with the pandemic, the lack of spaces and parties pushed us to evolve further. We decided, 'Let’s create this space ourselves,' and it grew into a series of events. It’s about filling the gaps and creating inclusive spaces where our values of freedom, creativity, and solidarity can thrive.
E: How has XSM Records evolved since its inception in 2020, and where do you see it going in the future?
K: Up until now, XSM has released 25 unique projects. Seeing XSM grow and evolve in the last four years has been an incredible journey. With Çağlar now in Berlin, me newly in London, and Birgay holding it down in Istanbul, we’re at an exciting crossroads. I think this is a time for transformation and expansion both individually and collectively.
Ç: Honestly, I have no idea where it’s heading, and that’s what excites me the most about this journey! As long as we as a community continue to exist, I hope XSM will keep thriving and evolving. The possibilities are endless and we will see all together!
You’ve both built careers in an environment where being openly queer often comes with risks. How do you personally stay motivated and inspired to continue creating and leading within your community?
K: I always stay motivated and inspired by the community and people around. If I didn’t feel that power—this renewing, nurturing, and inspiring force—it wouldn’t be possible for me to keep going. It’s not just about me; it’s about thinking of myself and those around me—the chosen family, the loved ones, the people who make this journey meaningful. Creation is my source of motivation, darling. Change makes me happy. Moving to London, for example, brought me so much joy—it is another transformation for me. In 2015, I decided to 'give birth' to Kübra Uzun, a transformation through personal and operational changes. That was one phase, and this move is another, and I think this one is also harder. Inspiration always comes from these moments of renewal. Every new phase, every new body, every new spirit, and every new experience becomes a reason to take the next step. Transformation is at the core of everything I do. It fuels my journey and allows me to inspire those around me.
Ç: Yes, Turkey may be harsher, but isn’t it risky everywhere nowadays? The world is heading in such a strange direction. But as lubunya(s)—as queers—we are here. We have always been here, and we always will be. Struggle creates a profound sense of unity, but it also highlights the need to sometimes find refuge in places where individual rights are respected, where the fight feels a little lighter. There’s value in taking a breath, a moment of comfort, to prepare for what’s ahead. I feel like I’m in that era now—a time to recharge. But let me be clear: this doesn’t mean leaving anything behind. Our connection to the fight remains strong. We are still here, creating, resisting, and standing together.
Photography by Jorgen
E: Kübra, your recent move to London has opened the door to exciting new opportunities. How has living in London influenced your personal/career growth so far?
K: Since moving here, I’ve applied to various artist residencies, funding opportunities, and even jobs. Last year, I had the chance to spend 3-4 months in London when we were invited to the Barbican in 2023, and it made a big difference—it helped me adapt much faster than I expected. Now that I’m here, I feel refreshed and ready to sparkle even more. I’m excited about the new creations. I’ll bring to life in this city, and the opportunities that are coming my way have been truly inspiring.
Çaglar, Berlin’s dynamic queer scene has its own distinct energy. What drew you to the city, and how has this move shaped your work and vision for the future?
Ç: I’ve been visiting Berlin since 2009, and it’s always been a city where I wanted to spend a chapter of my life. Looking back, moving here at this stage in my life feels like the right decision—it has helped me avoid losing my younger self at the city’s pace. Even though Berlin isn’t as artist-friendly or punk-friendly as it used to be, it still offers an incredible sense of peace that inspires me in a completely different way. While Istanbul’s chaos fuels creativity, Berlin’s tranquillity feeds it in its own unique way. Looking ahead, I want to establish a community here while creating a bridge between Berlin and Istanbul. One of my goals is to prepare a live audio/video show, which I’m really excited about. This city still offers so much creative potential, and I’m eager to explore it further.
Your Mega Müzik Market project is profoundly inspiring, particularly for those eager to rediscover and understand the unique essence of '90s Turkish pop. Could you share more about the inspiration behind this project and future goals?
Ç: Thank you! MMM is such a special compilation for me. It captures the spirit of the '90s, the old secular Turkey, my childhood, and the unique fusion of soul in the lyrics and vocals with dance beats. It’s a tribute to the incredible arrangers of that era and a way to celebrate the magic they created. This was a project I’d wanted to do for a long time, and I’m so happy to have finally started it. The compilation features tracks that I often play during travels or at small, intimate after-parties. They’re songs I’ve shared with loved ones and pieces that have inspired me over the years. Now, we’re giving a bigger after-party through these compilations for this journey! I’m considering creating more compilations within the MMM universe, and perhaps even a side project inspired by this world. Stay tuned—there’s definitely more to come!
Your roots are deeply tied to Turkey, and the influence of Turkish pop and culture is evident in your tracks. Now that both of you are living abroad, what do you see as the advantages and disadvantages of creating and living away from Turkey? How does being distant from your source shape your connection to your art and the culture that inspires it?
K: This is something new for me, to experience, to exist, to be alive, to create on my own. Day by day I understand the sharpness of being alone, never experienced that much before. And kinda in a sudden! But I think I need to take it all as ‘an experiment’ from a wider angle… But yes, it’ll take time, for sure!
Ç: You’re absolutely right—Turkish pop culture (well, mainly 90s) has deeply influenced us throughout the process. But for me, this is my fourth time living outside Turkey, and each experience adds something new to my creative journey. What makes Berlin unique is its energy—it’s truly special. And the fact that so many people from Turkey are here creates a different kind of connection. I’m curious to see how these influences shape my work and where this journey will take me.
As a Turkish citizen, I know first-hand how challenging it can be to secure a visa to live abroad. How did you navigate that process? Did you face any obstacles along the way?
K: I'm considered as a global talent by the UK's Arts Council. I just had to gather a few documents, and voilà—I arrived in London! It felt surprisingly smooth for me, but only at the beginning.
Ç: This is a tough question. Given the current state of Turkey, so many people who want to live freely are trying to leave the country. Add the ongoing economic crisis to the mix, and even getting a tourist visa has become incredibly difficult. The visa we obtained, though, is an artist visa. If you have a solid background of work in your field and can provide the necessary documents, it’s achievable. Unfortunately, Turkey keeps losing talents, and we’re forced to leave behind loved ones. But let’s not make it sound too dramatic—sometimes stepping out of your comfort zone is just what you need!
After everything you’ve built together and the challenges you’ve overcome, what does it feel like to now be living in different countries? How has this relocation journey impacted both your personal lives and your creative processes? Is there any other Project on the way?
K: We’re planning to expand XSM, for sure, but first, I personally will take my time focusing on myself and my path here in the UK. I need to and want to feel stated, kinda rooted and settled first! Then I will be able to contribute logically and willingly to XSM and/or other collective projects. As XSM, we’ve always been open to new ideas and getting into new shapes. Maybe there’s something exciting coming next year—stay strong, stay tuned, and follow along!
Ç: Honestly, we don’t have a fixed plan yet. As the XSM ‘mothers,’ any future projects we create will involve all three cities: Istanbul, Berlin, and London. Are you aware of the danger? LOL!
Photography by Dirty Projector
SHORT SHORT
If your current mood were a colour, what would it be?
Mx. Sür: Purple Kübra: Blue
What’s one song that feels like the soundtrack to your life right now?
Mx. Sür: MFÖ – Geçiniz Kübra: Franz Schubert - Der Wanderer, D. 493
Three things in Istanbul that people should experience.
Mx. Sür: Rakı & Meze, hamams, Beyoglu afters. (traditional Turkish dining and bathhouse experiences).
Kübra: Düşler Sahili, dancing in Sahika, and eating çiğ börek from the famous Antakya family at Galatasaray/İstiklal Street (known for their fried pastries and stuffed meatballs).
If you could describe ALAN2020 in one animal, what would it be?
Mx. Sür: Tardigrade Kübra: Chameleon
What’s the last thing you read that left an impression on you?
Mx. Sür: Gündüz Vassaf – Totalitarianism in Everyday Life
Kübra: Gabriel Garcia Marquez - One Hundred Years of Solitude
If you could perform anywhere in the world tomorrow, where would it be?
Mx. Sür: A very cosy but goth castle. Kübra: In my room, I guess =)
What’s one piece of advice you’d give to your 20’s?
Mx. Sür: All good, you’ll think about the advice when you’re 40 ☺
Kübra: Always believe in yourself.
If you had to pick one dish to represent Istanbul’s underground scene, what would it be?
Mx. Sür: An amuse bouche. The scene is tiny these days but tasty.
Kübra: Stuffed mussels.
What’s the first thing that comes to mind when you hear “resilience”?
Mx. Sür: All of us! Kübra: All people around!